When recording your demo, do you consider...

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... the dynamics of the --word/lyric you "sing"?

So, for example, I might sing "yesssss", "yes", or "yyyyyyes".

-- What I am noticing in what I am listening to is that a more stoccato "yes", if even is "sung", or, is more drawn out as sung speaking voice, -- may sound "better" (more stoccato word is better). Anyone else notice that?

How I got onto this, --I was trying to figure out why I "like" some lyrics, as sung one way versus another.

-- It was not the fault of the Lyric, nor the Music, nor the Voice.
What sounded "amateurish" to me was that the ones I didn't "like", the person was trying sound like they were singing it versus, just singing it.
(They sounded like they were trying to sound like they were singing.)

Now, that is just a way of describing it as I can. That is likely not the case for the singer. However, there may be more "Pro" level vocalists here who "get" what I am describing and have an opinion, input, other?

On a similar question, --which may help to relate too:
-- I remember one time, long ago within a songwriting group I asked if anyone considered if they were singing the Root, 5th or 3rd of the Chord they were playing, to harmonize with/as vocally. No one "there" knew, what the heck I was talking about.

Then I got hold of some "studio" singers who validated the question, (as, "oh yeah....!"), but then had some, unusual elements to add. They said, of course the 3rd really defines the chord and may sound "out of tune" if sung with the chord, certain modulations; they avoided the Root note as the sung note (eh... that does not always work for me, pending the Progression); no one disputed the 5th as long as it was the "melody" note of the lyric.
-- This is directly related (to the above) since, regardless of Progression, there is the sub-melody of the Chord Modulation, Inversion as well and then the Dynamic and Pitch of the vocal and where it may as well modulate to. Maybe I am hearing to much sub-"modulation"... sing the Lyric stoccato and let the Chord or other "finish" the bar or beat... so again, thoughts? If any Lol ? (Maybe this is why I/others like more syncopate, front/back heavy or ahead/behind the beat lyrics?)

I fully realize there are not many folks here now, end of October, and that's OK. There may be few "lurkers" though, so put it out there, here Smile
(No rush... not looking for "quantity" If you don't get it, skip it Wink , no need to frustrate yourself!)

i think the problem of dullness comes from writing a melody within ghte chord structure rather than writing the melody first and then finding interesting harmonies in the chordal arrangement. also, singing off the chords, whether it is deciding what note of the chord to hit or just hopping spontaneously from chord to chord, is going to present you with a very limited choice of directions you can take with the melody..a;; easily predictable......when singing, i dont trap myself inside the chords, but sing off the bassline. if there is n bass, i sing off the bassline in my head. so essentially the problem lies in the guitarists dependence upon chords. you can synchopate and stacattoize till the cows come home, but if you are jumping from note to note within chords, you are just throwing up bricks into which to imprison yourself.

Hey @billwhite51 -- how do you feel about, once all that's done (as you outline), -- and then?

Also, how do you feel about "how" the words are actually sung? Ever notice, e.g. "uncle" harry at the family gathering, #1 singing in his "chest voice" to sound like he's "singing" and #2 ~every~ word, is sustained at the end of the phrase, because "that's" how singing "sounds"?

Now, there are contexts where that fits. However, I am making an extreme example for a middle-ground point. I have nothing against legato chest voice singing Lol And, I love uncle harry Wink

If one removes the voice, lyric or music and find someone with all the same, --but they sing it how? And, why do we like that? What's different?

-- Why ask that?
-- Maybe if I can nail that down quantitatively, it may be more readily engaged?

I am just thinking out loud here. However, it may not ring anyone else's bell. Lots of what I say does not in certain contexts, but then, I find it as part of a "curriclum" that folks later on rave about Smile

all f these things are techniques one needs to master and the draw upon when called for. none is intrinsically better than the other. my singing in character signing, i write in the voice of a character and then sing in that voice. of course, for some of the songs, i am the character, but even then it is a fictionalized version of myself. what all this leads to is the neccessity for as much technique as your voice can hadle without getting phony drawing upon the technique should not be a technical, but an inspirational matter. ever notice how blues singers never sing out of tune, while the classical singer will drive you up a wall with the slightest failure of pitch? its because the inspired prerformance is always perfect, while the technical performance can be judged with a scorecard.

Not sure I get all the nuances of this conversation. The 3 or b3 defines the major or minorness of the chord, so it's got more emotional value than the 1 or 5. I know some people don't like to sing root of 1 chord, because it's the most stable tone - good place to end, but can kill forward momentum.
There are times and places to sound natural, and other places where you may want to sound unnatural if that's what your song requires. Technical singing is difficult exactly because if you're not right on pitch or time, it's obvious. I tend to go for a more loose singing part. Some would say sloppy Smile
On the initial post, there was a question of considering different pronunciations. Emphasizing different parts of the word. You do it in normal speech. Why wouldn't you do it in singing? Again, to me it's mostly about what serves the song and its emotion the best? If I'm singing a love song, I'm going to shape my words differently than if I'm singing an angry punk song.

Interesting thread, glad some folks are still around ...
I try to write lyrics that are singable, in terms of number of syllables, placement of vowels and consonants, etc. I've gotten more aware of that in the last few years, and now I try to do things like writing fewer words with more room for emphasis . (I struggled with wordiness when I began songwriting.)
I did not pay much attention to singing when I began songwriting - I knew I could carry a tune and that some people found my voice generally pleasing. Then I got interested in the performing and vocalizing aspect of singing - not necessarily being a great singer, but projecting emotion and such
I meant to do more melody-first things in 50/90 but only did one that I can think of - maybe FAWM. That idea sort of sprung from being the parent in charge of my daughter's voice lesson and practice schedule.

All very interesting to read!

"Me", -- it all sort of comes in one package together. However, I then do try to listen if what I did, is what I heard in my head, or, --how could I be more-better Smile In that, the more-better, the above comes out to think about.

As I said, I was listening recently, and noticed, all things considered all was the same but did not like one. And, all it was, was that they stayed in a narrow band, or range of pitch, and every word was "sung" end of phrase, if not every "rest" or silent-beat.

My hope is that I hear when I do that and then not do it. However, as I work on stuff presently, when I sing very staccato it does not "feel/sound" correct as I do it, --so is a self help thing. I also notice in listening to "Tom Petty" and all the albums that just arrived, (kinda how this started), --he was singing the word "me", and then I notice he was hitting the "e", "hard" in the upper third of the chord while I was hitting the "eh" of it (as I sang with him), ... and it struck me, --it made a difference in how the song sounded, allot (all oxymoronic stuff aside, if you know what I mean... of course it sounded different Lol and I like his "winey" eeee pitch, accent in his voice.)
--- However, we, or I don't get that kind of feedback. Maybe TP did, maybe he didn't. I suspect many folks said, hey drop/add the 7th there (e.g. only), in many note for note "listens" of tracks.

So, glad to see others, still here, and thinking about this too.

I'm doing well to think about melody, let alone dynamics when I record the typical FAWM/5090 demo. Most are one take, one track, one instrument, so not much to carry the rhythm and backbeat or sound to support adventuresome melodies, like a full band or multitrack recording would have. The few times I did give melody some thought, then I liked how the song turned out. Sometimes the melody arrives with the lyric, usually it falls out as I play the chords for that one take. The old trap I used to fall in to was singing on the root, LOL. A good learning tool for me is to transcribe a song and find how the melody falls on the chords.

Hey @AndyGetch ,

-- Yes, that's part of what I was driving at.

If one looks at my lyrics "here", while the text collapses in HTML, the little e's, a's, f#'s with the words next to the chord are my "performance" notes so as not to loose the melody and the dynamics which arguably is part of it... any "Conductor" would agree, or orchestral score sheet is loaded with how-to's. All of my lead sheets that I play from, if even a rare cover or if at "Church"... all are marked up, sometimes fairly heavily with lots of short hand.

Do you think about the lyric, word and if should chop it short, sustain up/down on it, push up/down an octave, etc?

So for further example, using Church, I noticed many were not singing --since at the end of a phrase didn't stop to take a breath for the next Measure. I started "re-arranging" for a 2 beat sustain or etc. More, if not all then sang, and it didn't sound "rediculous". It's like all forgot the full beat of the 4, or that the following 1 could be sung with an 8th or 16th rest. Not to get technical.

But, there were still some who ran the 4 and 1 together, -- good air I guess Smile

So, anyway, that application speaks to part of the --how sung thing I hope that I can catch in my own work, and satisfaction.

[@武道会] I have learned that to emphasize certain words or syllables I can either sing them louder, at a higher pitch, longer, or maybe with an out-of-key note. Do I think about that in the typical FAWM/5090 demo? Nea *LOL*. For me I have to leave space in long lines or between lines for breathing. To make phrases sing-along -able I have to use a lot of short repeating lyric phrases and maybe melody motifs that stay in a small range.