Tue, 10/04/2011 - 15:04
I've always had a love/hate relationship with the idea that a really good song can be perfectly presented with just guitar and voice. Of course it's wildly uncommercial but great masters of the form like Richard Thompson and Boo Hewerdine show that with exellent arrangement and guitar playing, it really can be done -- especially live ...
So it was heartening to discover the Civil War today -- they are really hitting the big time with just guitar and two voice.
Enjoy! This is magical ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGwnFz_5xRE&feature=related
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 11:21
#2
Chip, that is insightful -- I think the Civils are almost an acapella duo, the guitar is very spare and though loving played, not that full or complex.
I also agree on the 'what comes first' side ... this is how those songs were devised and arranged. Rather like Regina Spektor's early stuff, which was just piano -- and then later adding the hired hands on drums, bass and guitar did nothing to add to the sound, in fact detracted from it. Then she started writing for band arrangements, and those sound much better that way.
Doing a solo tour of a band's work always looks like a small fascimile, a watered-down version -- the Bob Weir stuff seems that way a bit to me, though I don't know the source material to compare it to ...
Having said that, it's also what you hear first and get used to. I heard Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds acoustic first and got used to those songs, so hearing the full band versions later on sounded overblown ...
There does seem to need to be another part beyond just voice and guitar -- that's either looper pedal, another voice, another instrument eg bass or lead guitar, extra fingers (eg Richard Thompson!) or I am trying whistling and that is going some way towards it ...
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 12:47
#3
I don't think there's any other instruments - it's a live video.
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 13:18
#4
Ummm ... the Civil's video is just guitar yes. What I (and I think Chip) are saying is that you need just a little more than just voice and guitar to make a great and compelling piece of music.
For example, these should be enough to do it:
Voice + Guitar + Voice (like the Civils)
Voice + Guitar + Guitar (Like Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds)
Voice + Guitar + Whistling (like me hopefully!)
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 13:37
#5
I've seen enough live acts with just a guitar and vocal where everyone in the room was holding their breath. It doesn't always work like that, but when it does, it's good enough for me.
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 13:39
#6
Yup, that's what I'm looking for, 'holding their breath' -- great description -- Were those acts also just guitar and voice on their CD's?
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 14:24
#7
Oh yeah, I just misread his post. My bad.
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 19:50
#8
Well, I think that a good vocalist who is a good guitarist can do pretty well. But a good vocalist who is an amazing guitarist can carry it a lot further. Or a good guitarist that's a pretty amazing singer can as well. But those of us who are almost good guitarist and average at best at singing.. well, we just keep plugging along.
Just keep swimming, swimming, swimming.
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 03:05
#9
TC, I guess I'd say I'm almost a good singer and average at best at playing the guitar. It's always my guitar work that lets my demos down, I feel. So that's my goal this year, to raise up my guitar playing a level or two.
I think a single voice and guitar are sufficient. Hell, a single voice is sufficient, given the performer, the song, and the moment.
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 03:31
#10
i'm not sure if anybody is actually saying here that guitar + voice is inadequate to create a good song, but if anybody is saying that, they're wrong.
That's all there is to it, i'm afraid, it would be like somebody saying all reggae is boring, or there's nothing new you can do with the blues. Those types of comments simply illuminate the unimaginative mind of whoever says it, and the same goes for anyone that thinks guitar and voice only is somehow a stopgap solution.
Yes, it depends on the song and all the other variables, but hopefully anyone with any sense can see that some songs are incredible as they are (whether that's 1 voice plus 1 instrument or with a large band) and other versions can also be incredible, or they might not, it's basically down to the song, the performance, the performer(s), the environment, the audience etc etc.
In short, all i'm saying is that ruling out a large section of music out of hand is silly and pointless, not to mention misleading.
So yes, there is indeed hope for guitar and voice, though i can't agree that combination is plain. :-)
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 04:49
#11
"What I (and I think Chip) are saying is that you need just a little more than just voice and guitar to make a great and compelling piece of music."
That's not what I said. In the very specific case of the original post, I stated that I wondered if the linked song would work with just one of their voices. Then I mentioned 3 people who I feel make very compelling guitar/vocal music.
I don't want to be misconstrued. And besides, I do plenty of guitar/vocal songs, and my two biggest fans (wife and daughter) think I'm pretty good at it.
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 05:24
#12
I think a single voice + guitar can work just fine -- as long as there are other instruments and singers involved.
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 08:46
#13
definitely agree with you.
So long as the other singers and musicians are in the audience, listening quietly. 
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:53
#14
I'm of two minds about this whole discussion.
On the one hand:
I am absolutely in awe of solo performers, and I am totally behind those who demo that way. Rock on!
I do think there is something to the idea that a really good song will work well in a simple one instrument/one vocal performance. But it's *not* a hard and fast rule - there are plenty of songs I love that wouldn't work very well that way, and in a lot of modern music styles, I think one could argue that the studio *is* the instrument.
And there's no doubt that a transcendent solo performer can transfix an audience - anyone who's heard Richard Thompson do 1952 Vincent Black Lightning (and I'd I bet everyone here has) knows. Another musician would just get in the way (and probably get run over and squashed in a sad but humorous way).
On the other hand:
I am not a transcendent solo performer. Not even mildly transcendental. I dabbled at playing solo for a few years back in the late 80s/early 90s. I did not enjoy it. I would consider doing a short (5-6 song) opening set should the opportunity arise, but I don't think I'm anywhere near good enough to do more than that by myself.
Plus, and I've said this before in other posts, what I enjoy the most about music is putting the pieces together. Even the fairly simple acoustic guitars/bass/cajon arrangements I mostly did for 50/90 gave me something to sink my teeth into.
Sad to say, if something like 50/90 was limited to solo demos only, I'd be a lot less likely to join in, and I'd enjoy it a lot less. I basically started trying to write songs 30+ years ago just so I'd have stuff to arrange and record.
I really haven't changed much.
Fri, 10/07/2011 - 06:59
#15
Aw, Kevin, you're so right! 
Saw Nick Lowe for the first time last night. He opened the show and near the end of his set, he did a version of Elvis Costello's "Allison" that was pretty humbling. it's a great song, but he seems to be only a so-so guitar player and a little light strumming plus an emotive, intimate performance made for a terrific experience.
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 12:10
#16
hehe.
I think to pull off a guitar/vocal only for more than a few songs in a row, you have to have at least one of these four things going for you:
1.) great singing
2.) great guitar playing
3.) great songs
4.) all friends in the audience that love everything you do.
I am OK at playing, anywhere from OK to bad on singing (or inconsistent) and my songs are OK to good (in my mind, at least). I can pull off 2 or 3 songs at an open mic, but if I had to do a whole set, even I would get bored.
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 13:19
#17
Ah Chip, sorry for any mis-construing ... my bad ...
I'm still trying to see the best way for a solo voice-and-instrument artist to present their CD. I just listened to the Civils CD and they have smatterings of acoustic bass, slide guitar and fiddle, merest hints here and there ...
I've found very few artists who's CD is also just voice and guitar -- can you name any?
Pink Moon
Nebraska
Bob Dylan, "Bob Dylan" album
and ...?
Quite rare beasts, I think ...
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 13:20
#18
Apart from our own Calum of course ... http://calumcarlyle.co.uk/album/another-side-of-calum-carlyle 
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 15:37
#19
Just listened to a few of Calum's songs - well done! Of course, I've always liked what he does here, so I figured I would enjoy it.
Two guitar-and-vocal albums I can think of just now are live albums - Chris Smither did one about 10 years ago and Graham Parker did one about 20-25 years ago. Both were, I believe, stripped down versions of songs they had done with full band. Chris Smither is a solid blues guitarist, and I dug his a lot. I remember liking Parker's, but if memory serves he was pretty much a straight rhythm player.
I'm sure there are some more modern examples.
I recorded 12 originals at home about six years ago and passed them out at gigs - I probably played harmonica on half of them. I don't have the chops to pull of a compelling guitar-only instrumental break.
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 21:05
#20
Chip mentioned Chris Smither, Charlie Parr is awesome they both add a lot of foot percussion to the performance, does that count as another instrument?
I think it comes down to the delivery and stage presence of the performer, I have happily watched 2 hour live sets from Chris, Charlie, Eric Bibb, Harry Manx et al.. Oh yeah and one really special show from Richard Thompson.
Without that stage presence it is as Kevin says, 2 to 3 songs is generally as much or more than most audiences will give a solo performer.
@John Crossman Nick Lowe doing Alison! That would've been awesome. Did he do "The Beast In Me"?
Hope I haven't gone too far off track
Fri, 10/07/2011 - 00:50
#21
I love the simple set-up of just guitar and voice[s]. Of course, my favourite type of music is pre-war country blues in general and anything by Mississippi John Hurt in particular! I don't play live - not sure I could pull off an hour long set with just me and my acoustic guitar (well, I'm sure I could play for an hour, but who knows how dull it would be?!)
Fri, 10/07/2011 - 07:53
#22
"I think it comes down to the delivery and stage presence of the performer" -- blindkiwi
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I should have added that to my list as #1. If someone is entertaining (funny, banter, engaging the audience), then that can often just make everything perfect.
Fri, 10/07/2011 - 07:24
#23
@John Crossman - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txFBk3s9GXg (Conan plays "Allison" for Elvis)
Fri, 10/07/2011 - 15:08
#24
@airbagtester - I don't watch Conan's show much - it's on too late for me. But just the promos for his show make me crack up. Funny clip you posted there. He actually sounded OK there for a bit.
@Steever - saw a Mississippi John Hurt clip on YouTube the other night. It was an old black and white TV show, and he was sitting at a table playing "Lonesome Valley." Such a unique style he had. I'm only recently discovering his music, because a buddy of mine played at an MJH festival a few weeks back and came back with some great tales.
I'm performing tomorrow, solo, for about three hours. To keep it interesting (including for myself), I try to not do more than two songs in a row in the same key, I mix tempos from song to song, I switch genres frequently, and I go back and forth between original and cover. I do play harmonica, and occasionally my pal (same guy I mentioned in previous paragraph) shows up to play a few on guitar while I accompany on banjo. But it's at least two hours of me, solo.
I plan on doing at least three 50/90 songs, and also a Rocktober/Let It Be song, and I'm going to record parts of the gig.
Watched your linked video and one more by them - unique, cool sound. I wonder, though, how compelling it would be with just one of them singing - it's their vocal blend that is really haunting.
Richard Thompson's voice is fascinating on its own. One could even argue that Dylan's voice works well in the guitar/vocal format, especially in his early work before he became a caricature.
Bob Weir of the Grateful Dead is doing some very good guitar/vocal work lately, re-interpreting the Dead catalog.
I don't know much about newer performers doing guitar/vocal. What is impressive about Civil Wars is that apparently they are starting out that way. There are lots of good guitar/vocal performers who started out in bands, or who take time off from their bands to do solo work.