Songwriting Collaboration Elements to consider here, -- and process to engage

7 posts / 0 new
Last post

-- I've notice the possibility of collaborations and specifically for lyricist has increased.

Some may be saying, yeah... finally! Smile I wonder if it may be facilitated further, and how to do so. This is purely analogous observation on my part, and for "fun".

Since they have seemed to increase, there's been more to observe concerning them. I have actually engaged them, "lyricists", --something I never thought I might do. Every session of FAWM5090 is new, -- so I do reconsider all as if "new", first time (one of the great elements of success of an engagement that ends and fully restarts, new, FAWM5090).

Now, with more observed, I had things come to mind that I had not considered previously. FAWM5090 for me is the best place to discuss this, "flesh it out", debate, discuss, cite good/bad/successful/unsuccessful -- process, method, assumptions, other. The ones that keep coming back to FAWM5090 do seem to remember or even fold them into new FAQ's they supply if needed, e.g. youtube help videos, etc.

-- I compiled a list of things I've observed. You? However, mine are not here, -- you first.

Therefore, it makes me wonder what others may have compiled as observations however may not have yet suggested/commented, or if they did, felt they were properly understood, important/not important, assumptions that should not have been made, other.

-- I've noticed three distinct elements of collaboration, at least, to consider, -- lyricists, musicians, "other contributors" such as vocalist/singer (possibly the largest affect/effect -ing element of "other")

-- "Me", as performing songwriter, -- being all three to varying degree will have a very different citing of things than lyricist, musician, performer only. This is what this thread could do the most to reveal, -- mindset to address for MORE collaborations; avoid presumptions and non-communication that may derail projects

That's the end of my preface on this and "all" that this is about. However, here's a caveat, assumption or two it is not about.

=== === === === === ===

One caveat for this thread if it does get engaged (this thread), and it may not, some may not "get" how much there is here, I could be wrong. Nonetheless... ... :
Other, not to necessarily consider "here" in this thread, consider then starting a separate one if extensive:
-- Most copyright law elements that I've observed are "always" handled by *pre-agreement* in writing prior to proceeding, and/or/with -- contacting the controlling authority, e.g. copyright.gov (USA CR's), ---- done! It's that simple, no discussion is necessary.

I do not think this is a copyright thread, -- that would be separate. Again, that is easily concluded as issue as just stated, --in process. Moreover, CR has also been "hashed out", possibly over the top in prior issues threads, prior FAWM5090's, and across platforms. Again, great to do if needed, (new folks arrive daily, --so do address it), -- but has it's own singular context (and countries, USA, UK, EU, Australia... etc.). These elements, simple above, 1-Lyricist, 2-Musician, 3-Separate Performer/Vocalist, I do not observe are thought about as thuroughly, -- overlooked as assumptive and should not be. We shall see Crazy

I have my "list" of things, however, I am more interested in others. If interested and asked I'd be glad to list mine. However, in this, I wonder if I am of a similar mind and this is a self-check in how I see things here. I hope I am on the same page, -- but how would I know if not directly engage it, -- this thread.

=== === === === === ===

I'll conclude this thread preface with, -- I find the last third here, last weeks of 5090 (possibly opposite to others), -- while some say "few" in numbers remain, are the more serious, hard-core, *passionate folks and IS the time, now, to have a discussion like this since all the other is done. All it takes is for 2, 3, 4 folks who "love" this stuff to engage for all the readers/lurkers Crazy who may read it and into January of next year if not have another "pre-discussion" for FAWM5090.
-- Apologies for typos, I did this over lunch in a unix "notepad", no spell check ... so derUgo Smile

I've developed some nice relationships here over the years with lyricists. Sometimes they approach me first because they think it's a set of lyrics that fits me and my musical styles.
Sometimes I'll comment and tell them that if no one else claims the lyrics, I might be interested. When that happens, it's because I get some music in my head as I'm reading. Other than the meaning of the words, the main things I'm looking for are meter and singability. I try to not change the words much, if at all.
I've had a couple of collabs that never got posted because the lyricist didn't like the music I came up with. No big deal. It happened in FAWM, and I just put my own words to the music.
I've also done collabs in which we both contribute words and music. Those are a bit trickier, but almost always worthwhile. I prefer less production to more - I like songs that after all the layers are stripped away could be performed with just a guitar or piano and vocal.
I also tend to gravitate toward collaborators who seem like folks I'd like to hang out with, jam on the porch with, have a beer with. I likely wouldn't collab with anyone looking to "make it big" (whatever that mean these days) or who wants to hash out in-depth contract negotiations. But I wish those go-getters well, for sure.

I ask by soundboard private message to put it to music if the lyric moves me, especially if I hear music in my head. Less often I get asked based on making a comment like @ChipWithrow said. In the past I have done some instrumentals and had others put that to music, or take someone else's instrumental and added words and a melody. Sometimes trading song starts with some words and basic music. A couple times I was asked to sing (still am shocked at that) on an otherwise finished enough for FAWM/5090 song. Close to half the time it does not work well enough for the collaborator and in the rush of FAWM/5090 the song gets left behind. If I happen to collaborate with a go-getter, and we get to a finished song, I set the song free and also wish them well. Sometimes the song gets handed back to me to do as I wish. All just for fun and the joy of creativity. Good

I've noticed that the folks who directly ask someone to engage their work specifically are getting the collaborations be it lyricists, musicians, or if separate "other", e.g. vocalist as Andy says (why say no to "sing" if directly asked and already "auditioned" Wink )
-- So by that I do not mean a generic "ask"; rather as you guys cite already and I've observed others, -- they directly ask and for a specific piece they see as working for them.

Also, -- It's what I do, I read a lyric and then directly ask, but "caveate" is if I am actually able to come up with anything and then if "liked", etc. I have a more, "go for it" then decide way of working, then if OK/Not OK decide... for me, how else... gotta taste/bake the cake first Smile , can't commit to loving w/o that taste.

And for me, engaging someone else work forces me into a whole 'nuther headspace of work process. So, if even it's a no go, -- I still love doing it since really forced out of my box, and that is for me, as you guys cite, --fun and just plain good for me to do. As well, it is different every time.

I am always happy to have someone collaborate on my lyrics and also happy to co-write ... on rare occasions I have done music as a collab but my music is pretty elementary.
I generally wait for people to ask me and am open to collabs with anyone - the only times I say no is if someone else already asked to collaborate.

I've been participating in FAWM and 50/90 for eleven years now. I'm not sure the possibility for collaborations has increased. It *might* be more prevalent now than before, but I'm not sure that's the case. I was part of the first exquisite corpse, part of the first morphing chain and participated in other challenges that encourage and/or require some form of collaboration. I am sure that those types of challenges have helped make collaborating fun and maybe 'the norm' but I wonder how much.

Personally, I collaborate more now than when I started simply because I have more/better relationships with other Fawmers/Fininers. Even now I feel a bit of stress when collaborating with someone for the first time, or even for the first time in a while. And I've let collaborators down in the past. Two examples come to mind. One from the first (I think) random collaboration thread and one from a year or two ago with someone I greatly respect. But all that being said, it IS super easy to collaborate here as long as you are open minded and helpful.

For me it's simply 1) ask, 2) be open minded/helpful at all points and 3) realize that the result doesn't always dictate success.

So far from all this great commentary response I have consolidated for myself and anyone else, folks who may be "new", and reading this with interest?, and not interested/able/have time for all the great challenges to collaborate. This may address more the "keep an open mind and be helpful" aspect commented since all here are at differing levels and therefore seek collaboration, and FAWM5090 renews each session:

For lyricists:
-- listen to folks, find ones you like and -- directly, proactively, individually ask them; don't ask them to ask you, -- they won't (may not).

For musicians only,
-- the same as above.

Now for the next category, "3-Separate Performer/Vocalist", I don't see discussed and I am seeing a little bit more of this session however anecdotal that may be; I feel if understood eliminates the extended issues noted above which impedes collaborations as stated. So, for keeping it fun, and avoiding a separate CR thread from this, -- simply engaged, Credit it appropriately upfront.

=== === === === === ===
For those who are thinking, "what does that mean"?, here's what it means to me:
-- The only thing I've seen as an element to consider is if the performance, the how-to, -- it is not yet figured out. Some may not "get" this point. If you for example ask someone to sing your piece *and* to figure out *how* to do so, and they are not singing very obviously, as e.g., jingle bells, a literal Note for Note melody mapped to the Note, Rhythm, and to a lesser extent Tempo they are completing the Melody, the music, -- co-author. Credit it. Remember the song is not yet made/finished/done. I don't see this as a problem; and if you can get a "singer" who can do this, -- you've got a great partner; credit appropriately.

I think for 99% of the folks here that may not be an issue or concern on any level of thinking about it.
-- However, I had someone come to me something like 3 years later and ask me about a melody. Yee-hah, Crazy here we go. They said they didn't remember but thought it was theirs, --they had an issue when explained it to the CR office who commented "derivative" or "co-write/author", -- just Credit it. They didn't want to, so I told them, -- take it, it's yours and deleted all traces of it; to late, the CR office had already addressed it. Therefore, don't do it that way; do as commented above. -- Simple.

So for this thread here, again for "here", -- simply as engaging this artistic side process only of "how-to" collaborate, process, simply, -- have that mapped out first; the how-to perform, sing it, the music, *or just simply and immediately Credit as co-write for music and/or lyric as appropriate. Then it's right there for 10 years later when it's a Top-40 Internet Streaming Hit in Southern Pakistan for Milking Goats, and all will know who did it, -- help their Goat Milk Production double! Crazy