A really bad idea...

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Yes, we all have them.

I know some will get this, and some will sheit while reading it... oh well, "you are here" *

So the idea.

In the "My Watchlist" type section, function, add a List that if you select their name they see the request as well, (limit it to say 5), whom I want to -- critically comment on my work. And, as this place goes, -- no rules, but then you do, or get swapped out. (Last year I did a full list review of the body of work for some that asked, -- since I can't comment on 50 individual songs and commenting on one for 300 people has limited value.)

I'd say, me being me, if even you don't like the person, oblige them, -- could be why they ask, for an outta the box take on their work and would have "Value".

So, I know if was there, and in effect, I'd likely take a "project term" to figure it out (a full FAWM, or part of a 5090), but, I know of at least 3 I'd add and two if not one would not be "thrilled" to do it, but would, ?, -- especially with all the other stuff they do, e.g. skirmishes and other stuff I don't engage.

I'd likely specifically pick one that's 180 degrees from "me", (or I "think" is... we do get surprised sometimes) and maybe one I am sure really dislikes me... but may be mature enough to engage at that level since, well, fawm-5090 is a "special" place where the unusual, usually occurs Wink

Tso, derUgo... my 5 min write moment of clarity this morning... -- it genius I tell yah, genius Smile (sounded good in my head when I said it to myself Wink )

Some won't understand what the heck I am talking about, and that's OK, then skip it Smile -- it's the reverse of "my watchlist" -- you're "insisting" those there DO, *critically comment. And since like the rest, for the folks who want only hugs and kisses, -- put those there and feel even better! I am sure all will know, -- folks do seem to know me, or come to fairly quickly, -- authentic and all about the "music", not the politics. I want to move forward, not remain comfortable where I am, ever, never have so far in my life.

(And to get ahead of the "qualified" to comments I know may come though not relevant, -- "out of the mouth of babes..." For me, anyone with $5 for a CD or $3 for a DL, is qualified enough... -- just like the $20M kids buying Taylors stuff for the last decade. But, I digress... as I said, "bad idea".)

Its an interesting one usta @ustaknow Yes its good to have a group of people you trust to tell you how it is! (In life as much as music) its brave to include in the group a person/s that may not be totally in line with you to give you a wider perspective. The key is they have to understand what you are trying to do! An example is a while ago someone suggested a song i had written was pretty lightweight and padded! And it was fairly critical. It certainly was light and padded! It was a song i was trying to make more for the masses. Anyone who knows me would know i write a balance of light and deep so if its light its meant to be. Im very self contained so i don't get upset by criticism i am very capable of putting positive and negative comments through my life filter! And deciding what to take on board. I do get a bit peeved (not here i must say) by people who continually try to enforce their style and beliefs - usually in my my view trying to big note themselves. I smile to myself as well because most times the people who do that are wannabies whereas (i dont advertise this much) i do write professionally.
On the other side i am all in favour of positive reinforcement as long as it does not give false expectations. I have seen people get told in sites how wonderful they are but then flop in the real word and get devastated! My observation as a people is we are generally not as strong as we were and we surround ourselves more with yes people - this statement completing the cycle and your point - its good to get other views! Phew i wonder if that was a good or bad idea!

Hi guys, first, I just made a bunch of random comments from the demo update thread so I deserve 5 minutes of time to comment on the forums. The watchlist has been pretty much worthless to me this year. There are two ways I comment and I do as I currently have 549 comments given. Number 1, those who have generously commented on my songs and I pick songs from the songs page. I prejudice no one for any reason. I have found that I like 99 percent of all of the songs I have looked at this year. I just say what I think and usually, I step on nobody's toes. People who give me advice are the ones who are most valuable but the support for my efforts is much needed as well to maintain a state non-frustration with a bad streak with the music. Anyway, like Ringo, I'm peace and love as my philosophy.

I always try to find The positive in songs just becourse this place is so full of People that want to think they know what is "correct" but as my teachers said so many Times is "this is art and its very Hard to critisise most artists have their crowd"
If I want to know if my song is good enough I simply try it on tthe open mics a couple of Times before I add it out there and even IF I really dont like a song I wont Tell People that they did it wrong.
Yes there are music that "works" for radio that brings in million but there is also music you might dislike that "works" in different areas.
As I myself Come from The theatre area I cant stress enough that every piece of art is not for everyone so I would say Id rather take comments or feedback from anyone here that took The time to listen rather than some exclusive list that I have picked myself. Than its up to me to eighter take something with me from The comment or dont.
I really respect and honor all listeners

i listen to sommething by everyone and comment only when i have a reaction to it. my comments are not reviews or criticisms just reactions. i comment on over 1/3 of the songs posted, and try to listen to everything by the two dozen or so artists whose work truly excites me. for me 50 90 is as much about listening as creating. i am not interested in criticism, as i have ht a point where the demarcation between good and bad songs no longer exists. nobody know the merits and flaws of a song better than the person who writes it. but i am very interested in responnses. what does somebody hear when they listen to one of my songs? very often they hear something different than i wrotem and whhile i am tempted to say no, that is not what the song is about, i fight that impulse and try to understand why they had that response or interpretation. the encouraging thing is that people are willing to listen i the first place. their resonse is as personal to them as the writing and performing of it is to me. and i hope others receive my comments in the same spirit. sometimes i will listen to a song and really enjoy and/or admire it, but i have no response to it that i can put into words....other times my response is so personal that it may be useless to the artist. it doesnt matter. its all about sharing, listening, responding, writing, singing....all of these precious explosions of the heart, mind, and soul that exist off the grid of a manufactured culture that means very little to either the creators or the consumers,

First, I'll respond to the initial post - any additions to the Watchlist section would of course require more work for Eric, Jen, etc. (That's why I make sure I donate every year to FAWM and 50/90 - just keeping the sites going is work enough, let alone adding features.)
Better, I think, to start a thread of like-minded, critique-seeking people. You'd add your name as someone willing to give and get such feedback, then someone could message/email you to arrange how that would work. Or something like that.
I wouldn't be in that thread, though. I like to see that people somehow connect with my songs (something similar, I think, to what @billwhite51 wrote). But I like most of my songs just fine as is, and for the ones I do try to improve later, I can figure out what I want to do.
I just recorded two songs guitar/vocal, in a hurry, because I have the whole house to myself for another hour or so. I know some of the guitar picking was sloppy and a couple of the lines didn't sing well. But I know how to fix that if I want to.
I would be interested in hearing people's motives for signing on for a critique thread like the one listed above. Not what they want to improve, necessarily, but why.

I second Chip's suggestion of making a thread (or starting a facebook group) or to post a notice in the liner notes of your song post asking for critical feedback. In the past when we've tried this, it didn't work too well. People tended to not be too critical of even obvious flaws. I think it's because most people come here to be creative, to be part of the community and to be motivated to write songs (and do art in general.) There are plenty of places on the web that can critique your music, tear you down to various extremes or will give you their opinions non-stop. FAWM and 50/90 just aren't those places.

That being said, there is value to critique. To answer Chip's question, it wasn't until someone was very opinionated (and while not rude, very blunt) about my vocal phrasing before I truly started to pay attention to it and work on it. Yeah, to me it's no big deal to sing the non emphasized syllable on a stressed musical note, but honestly, if it doesn't HAVE to be that way, it's better not do it. There are tons of small things that I could improve. But I sometimes get complacent. And that's okay. I like how I write songs. But if I want to improve, if I want to get honest (which is sometimes painful) reactions from people, then a critique is the way to go.

All great reaction, -- but, again, -- notta "critique" thread, how or why; it's simpler than that.

If I see, "out of the blue" my name in someones list of 5 folks to provide critical comment/feedback, somone I know, don't know it then tells me without guess, -- they want for whatever reason, that.

Again, any of the comments above this, -- yeah, I agree and well said. But, this is not "that". It is actually more of what tcelliott said, or I think he said... it's that pattern of unsolicited something for which the gestalt kicks in and I go, "ohhhh... let me try that" or something and may move a new direction, or something, -- that's just an single example.

So, back on point, the original post, -- I do not have to "guess", am I annoying this person, are they not commenting back since ... what?

There are some that I don't comment on and then I get, months later, "you mad at me"? or along that line to keep it simple? Smile Or, "why did you "snip" that out, delete it"? -- "I was using THAT as my saved note(s)" (that actually happened a few times since would "clean up my posts" in time, -- just delete them all actually.

So, the thing of this idea is the reverse of the watch list since they may NOT want "me" watching them, so to speak Smile But, again, if I see my name "demanding", so to speak, critical feedback, it makes it allot easier and is a feature I wonder the effect?

However, knowing these "Shells" it is not easy unless a feature in the OEM's code to enable, -- and so the bad idea comment for that reason too. Meaning? Well, what if 250 active members put me in that list, what it would it look like for "me" Smile hahhh... that's a coding nightmare and so impractical and why the "thread" comment, an oldie but a goodie! is functional, -- but, never happens.

I'd guess there would not only have to be a 5 list limit, who could list you would have to be limited, first come, first serve, -- not gonna spec it, just saying Smile

-- However, with all that, I really was not sure if the thread would be left w/o comment or what may be engaged about it. I did expect that likely only folks (late in the project here) would be "experienced" folks - or would make no sense to "new" folks.

A fun thing? As I write this, would be to ID on a page, who was being requested by whom and what was said! Why? Well, because, long ago and still today, I learn as much from what others are told, -- read the comment, listen, read the reaction and etc.

For me, again, just me, -- I am doing allot more than posting and hoping or even commenting. I as well then see for example if I get a comment and it's just a jelly filled donut of goodness, -- do I take it seriously? (Or if critical and don't understand, to seek to understand... ... ...) Well, anyone here get any jelly donuts from me? Smile Well, if you have, you know I was moved and good to know? That's up to your profile of listeners.

I know in past projects, early days, other places... with all the ways folks talk about music with their terms and 10 other ways of Notation/Comment, -- I know I misunderstood, what were authentic, not negative and helpful comment.

Well, that's enough a rabbit trail and it why a thread like this, -- I would only post in the last days of 5090 and now after being known for what I mean, -- only good if even not well stated at some point, -- I am, really working (a real job Smile not "this"), --- when I do this, but as I've said, I can (not new news to most).

So, there you go.

Oh, one last thing about a "thread", so for example, it I or Bill or Elliott or Chip do that... who's gonna engage it? The same folks that always do Wink If I don't know jcollins (now see what he said), -- and he posts a thread, "all welcome to comment, critically", -- I'm not gonna Smile Really would you if don't know me? But, if I insert your name in a limited Feature that says, "oh yeah, DO... and not "sounds gud/like-it" please" ... you probably would. If not, replaced, if useless replaced if very helpful I'll never leave you alone!!! Smile hahhh! And, my name will be replaced Smile hahhh!

-- Great discussion to read, thank you!

...all of these precious explosions of the heart, mind, and soul that exist off the grid of a manufactured culture..." --Bill White

Wow, that is a brilliant description of how I feel about the 5090. For me this whole thing is about creating those explosions in my own heart--and trying to connect with others who are building their own little fires of the soul.

I just realized that I don't even know why I commented in this thread. I think what I was trying to say is that I use to talk a lot in here but this year I've been pretty solid with taking action rather than participating in the discussions. I've gotten to know a lot more people in here without even taking part in the forums discussions. Also, the watchlist point I made is not valid because it reminds me of people who I have connected with before, my bad. Still, I spend a lot of time actually looking closely at everybody's song as I can and it takes a long time to assess the lyrics and the audio. There is an unbelievable amount of things to say about any particular music that I look at. I use to have a bad habit of just clicking on the audio..." sounds really good!". You guys me know and I always have something to say even if I'm just regurgitating your lyrics back...it shows I'm paying attention, I think. Peace. I'm stepping aside and don't want to be part of the forums very much anymore. You guys already know me because I've been here for years, and that's really all you need to know. A different story when I'm actually in your songs though. I hope we can agree on that. I'm out of here but always around.