FAWM 2012

Kowboy, you were conspicuously absent from 50/90. Glad you'll be back for FAWM!
I'm already kicking around ideas for FAWM - one is writing lyrics first, something I have done only a few times. The other is creating kirtan music for my yoga-instructor wife to use in her classes - it's sort of trance/meditation/deep groove stuff.
Seems I can't get into writing, though, unless it's within the timeframe of FAWM or 50/90. So those ideas can wait.

well, i will be back for FAWM too (to some people's irritation no doubt!), but next year i will see if i can stick to just writing lyrics, for potential collaborations.

I expect to show up as well. (-: Been taking a break from lyric writing for a while; keeping the Muse at bay until February. Too many other things at the moment making demands on my time.
@calumcarlyle, I hope you'll be up for possible music. (-:

Let's see - February... bitter cold, blinding snows, cabin-fever, nothing better to do... yeah, I'm pretty sure I'll be around for my 2nd FAWM. LOL

@Donna,

Possibly, but i really don't need to write any more music to be honest. I'm sure i can be cajoled into a musical collaboration or two, but i plan to join you lyricists on your side of the fence next year for the main part.

Like Calum, I don't need to write any more music. What I should do at some point between now and when I die is to go through all of the hundreds of songs I have and revise, re-record, learn them better so I can perform them, etc. But come February, I'll be doing another FAWM for sure.
I did a cool collab with Jane_ukey (http://fiftyninety.fawmers.org/songs/11338) for which I sent her the lyrics with no music - I'd never done that before. I had a melody in my head as I wrote the song, but I didn't tell her what that was when I sent it to her. What she did was chilling, beautiful, haunting and very different from what I would have done.
I'd like to do more of that kind of stuff for FAWM, but I doubt I would just post a set of lyrics with no specific collaborator in mind. What I want to do mainly is to write lyrics first, then maybe even set them aside for a day or two before setting them to music myself.
Here's a great quote from Bruce Springsteen, describing how he wrote his first album: "I'd write the verses, then pick up the guitar or sit at the piano and follow the inner rhythm of the words." That's sort of what I want to do.
But I do have fun perusing the lyrics of others, looking for collabs, so I will likely do a couple of those as well.
Or I'll just write 14 or so various songs, like I usually do.

Looking forward to February, meantime think I'll try and learn how to play a guitar.

My thoughts exactly TC

It will be my first FAWM but I am well looking forward to it, I managed 50 songs in 90 days but have struggled to do 2 since. Think the deadline must help stimulate the muse.

What if you stop writing music and then can't start again when you want to? The only solution I see is to keep writing.

@TC and RC, ok, it's just i have hundreds of songs now. Literally dozens that i think are catchy as hell, and yet nobody* comes to my gigs, nobody* buys my CDs or mp3s. Nobody* cares about my songs, and if they do, there are enough of them lying around on the internet to satisfy any casual new listener. They will get more of my music for free than they can handle, so why should they stick around and listen to any more, or heavens forbid, actually pay for any of it? How can i continue and still look myself in the face in the mirror?

It isn't a case of stopping and not being able to start again. I'm still in about four or five other people's bands, and i can't literally imagine stopping writing songs forever, they will always be forcing their way to the surface of my brain, but i think i will stop specifically *trying* to write them. I've no need to pump out another 14 songs in february, another few dozen in 5090 etc etc. If someone wants to collab, it'll be fun, but a lot of this hasn't been fun recently. I just finished writing a whole album in nasoalmo and i think it's the best material i've ever written, taken across the whole twelve tracks, and yet now i look up from my DAW and realise i haven't got an audience no matter how many gigs i play, or who i email or network with online, what's the actual point? It's less demoralising to just stop writing, at least i can grumpily tell myself i could have been a contender instead of looking failure right in the face the whole time.

Anyway, sorry if that sounded negative, but there does come a point i think when dues paying should finish.

PS - sorry to digress, this thread is about FAWM 2012 i believe.

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* - i must clarify this, a small number of people do these things very occasionally, and i truly appreciate that. I don't mean to alienate anyone who genuinely has supported my music in any way no matter how small, but i do mean to say that after a certain amount of time it does feel like piddling into the ocean. Where is all the effort actually going? I do feel like now IF a friend or two comes to hear me play live it's from an obligation. I get MANY more people giving me their excuses than actually coming along, and that's depressing, i don't care what they were doing instead of coming to my gig FFS! We're all busy, it's not a problem, if you weren't there no need to give me a reason why! Many of my friends have NEVER been to one of my gigs, again this is fine, except that these people all tell me how they promise to "one day" turn up at one, i'd rather they were honest to themselves, they don't care about my music, they never will turn up to a gig, and my friendship with them is therefore not based on me being a musician. I can accept that, why can't they?

Calum, I'm going to walk back what I said, at least a little bit. I think I do understand where you're coming from.

I've been gigging for 35 years. Back in the late 80s, I was in a band that was doing very well locally, and had an impressive following, some of whom were at least mildly interested in our original music - an opporunity we squandered in oh so many ways. And after 3-4 really good years, our following started dwindling - people that came out every week got married, had kids, and every week became once a month became twice a year. Became "geez, what's it been, five years?"

But even when we had a large following, it was only a small percentage of those folks who cared about *our* songs.

In the end, I write songs for *me*. Which is why, between 1998 and 2009, I only wrote a handful of songs - even I wasn't interested in what I had to say. But in 2010, I rediscovered how much I enjoyed creating a song out of thin air, and I think I'm a much better songwriter than I was 12 years ago. And I am enjoying writing so much right now, I don't intend to stop.

Having said that, I do want to pull in the reins a bit - easier said than done, given how much writing I did in Oct/Nov when I had planned to do 0. I am definitely going to try to do FAWM. But when July 4 comes around, I do not see myself trying to hit 50 again. I did that already. Right now, I think I'll try to do a well-produced and polished album's-worth of songs, plus some collabs and as many skirmishes as I can fit in. The skirmishes were a revelation to me last year, and something I want to explore further...

Anyway, I'm rambling. I'm a fat, hairy 53-year old dude from Ohio - rock stardom is not in the cards. I still enjoy playing live, and am amazed that anybody is still willing to pay me even a little to do so at my age. And now that I've started, I will keep writing until I bore myself again, and keep putting it out there for others to use or ignore as they see fit.

Calum, you're trying make music for an audience, which I firmly believe is the *RIGHT* way to go about it (and I certainly do not mean this in a "sellout" way - you're definitely doing your own individual thing, but you *are* actively looking for an audience for it). You are trying to be a "professional", and you suffer the slings and arrows that go with the effort. I've really become a hobbyist, which allows me to insulate myself from such things. I've been submitting songs to publishers on occasion, but I really don't have the kind of skin in the game that you do anymore.

Good luck, and do what you gotta do.

PS - geeze, I could have completed NANOWRIMO if I'd written this last week.

Just popping in to say hi. I miss the inspiration of having you all chattering away all the time. Can't wait for Feb.

"um, this describes more than half the successful rock stars i can think of, approximately speaking (well, some of them might be skinny, but it's a minor distinction!)."

Well, perhaps, but I'd say the vast majority of them were hairy rock stars before they were fat and 53.

@Kevin - Can't speak for Calum, but I'm very much a hobbyist. It's still demoralising when you play gigs that hardly anybody comes to, even if you weren't expecting to make any money. I love music, I love performing and would happily play for free as long as it's to a good audience.

Gerry, how right you are - these are wise words. I too find that songwriting (and performing) is a key to keeping a balance. I'm also sympathetic to all the views that have been stated.

There are some questions behind the recent posts along the lines of 'what really matters' which I guess could include the following.

What is a hobby?
This seems a particularly Anglo Saxon, work ethic influenced view of worthwhile activities that are usually unpaid. I read in the 70's that there was, at that time no accurate French equivalent of the concept of 'hobby' (now they just use the word 'hobby'). In the West we seem to find it relatively easy to show respect for musicians, storytellers, etc. in places such as Mali or Senegal who also make a living by other means but when looking at similar activities in the UK we can't avoid comparing these with celebrity and wealth.

What is a talent?
Also what should you do with any talent that you find that you possess? Depends on the particular talent I would suppose. I'd imagine that if you found you were especially skilled at identity theft then it would be best not to develop that skill any further. But what should you do if you find that you can write songs that are considered to be very good?

Can you use your talent as a force for good? I
If you can entertain (in the widest sense), inspire and teach others in terms of music then is that worthwhile?

Does it all depend on your age?

that's a good reply, Kevin, but i'm not sure it's 100% applicable to me, or not yet anyway.

re: hobbyist or pro, well i think every performer needs to behave like a pro, however it is my opinion that it is virtually impossible to be anything but a hobbyist. Even semi-pro musicians i know still sometimes play gigs where they promote it like a hobbyist would, if at all, and they get hobbyist level audiences. (my point, if it's not clear, is: they should really get pro sized audiences or greater, like the "secret gigs" of the 1990s, according to many people's expectations, though these expectations are clearly out of date). That's all good, but i mean i actually don't believe in the music "industry" anymore, for the majority of performers, if that makes sense. We're all hobbyists now, except for the VERY odd fluke (Mumford and Sons maybe? Somebody like that? Gaga?).

re: true fans, i have seen a good few robust points of view from several angles on this issue. I don't think i have any "true fans" going by the most strict definition, and i'm not sure if it's even possible, given the level of commitment a "true fan" is supposed to have. Also, i have serious doubts about the lifetime of that fan's trueness. They may be a true fan for a day, a week, a month, but people are always interested in new things. Our actual social outlook is different now than it was in the late 20th too. A band could release an album after 2 or 3 years of nothing in the 1980s, and as long as they'd had a single or two out beforehand they might expect their fans to remember them and buy it (buy it mind you!) just to check out the new stuff. Imagine somebody buying an album for full price now without even hearing it first!

I also can't agree that having talent (or even ability) has anything to do with popularity or staying power, i don't think i need to cite examples they're all round us, however thank you for saying i have talent, i do try.

But really i am not a moaning sad-pants i just think that's how it is, and it is frustrating on isolated occasions, but it's the world. If somebody does something (sculpture, knitting, music, whatever) they just accept whatever the situation is at the time, and maybe part of their passion is to try and chenge that situation actively in their own time. I love it when innovative approaches are taken by artistes. You remember that Hog The Street competition i recently entered? They were looking for the "next bright young things" to play a live set at Edinburgh's Hogmanay Street Party? Well obviously i didn't win it, but a friend of mine did, with his band, Matt Norris and the Moon, and they deserved to win it too, and this will have been in part due to their good attitude, their manager Nicky, their feelgood factor when performing (and also the fact there's six of them == more friends, they're fairly young and memorable to look at, and they have a fairly easily pigeonholeable sound, though they are very good). I don't have those factors. Yes, i'm not quite in my 40s or 50s, or 60s or whatever, but i don't even think it matters. Any of us could be the next Seasick Steve, theoretically.

No idea what my actual point is except, i observe this stuff happening, but i'm not sure i would say i'm even complaining about it, it's not really anybody's fault, not even mine, i honestly don't think, that i haven't got much appeal.

Ironically though i do think this new nasoalmo album is noticeably better than i have managed before, so i will be emailing it round and we'll see what happens. I'm a novice at this though, it'll be like learning how to apply for jobs and go to interview for the first time all over again!

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but i will be here for FAWM 2012, for some collabs, which aren't intended for any particular purpose other than good fun, and the hope that some of the rest of you will enjoy them, also i'll be back to listen to the wealth of good music written by others.

And i also wanted to say in reply to Roddy_ that i think making music has to be an attempt to make the world a better place, regardless of what other motives are involved.

Also, by the way Roddy, you reminded me of something i read recently about Ali Farka Toure's son (he and his son are from Mali, and Ali Farka Toure was a very successful recording and performing artiste). His son didn't get his blessing until very late in his life, because their family are traditionally soldiers. You might think he'd be proud of his son for following in his musical footsteps, and ultimately he was, however for a long time he was seemingly more proud of the family tradition of soldiery that he himself had turned away from to be a musician. That gave me a lot to mull over, anyway.

And the western late 20th C idea that music is somehow related to fame and fortune is a parody, and can only hinder us as we move into the 21st century (in my opinion). That bubble hasn't quite burst (U2, Radiohead, AC/DC etc etc, maybe even Take That, Gwen Stefani, are still living inside it) but it is closed to new entrants, that's for sure.

yeah, that'll probably happen to me too, regardless of what i say. The co-writer/singer that i did two songs with this nasoalmo (check them out, tracks ten and twelve here: http://www.nasoalmo.org/?q=content/better-out ) she's quite eager to start co-writing again towards end of January, so i guess i'll probably end up as busy as usual with songwriting during Feb 2012!

I mentioned this on FAWM last year I think, but here is my story once again. When I was 25 I gave up everything to do with playing and writing songs. It seemed to me that as I wasn't a rock star I should just stop it all. I sold my stuff; guitars, harmonicas, etc. and walked away free of all the trappings of songwriting. I really thought at the time that I had made a bold and mature decision.

However, it didn't feel quire right but I was determined to persevere in my new song-free way of life.

A few months later I moved into a new rented flat, and only after about three weeks of living there I looked in a cupboard that I thought was empty. There, hidden in the dark was an old electric guitar. I started playing and writing with it and, by and large, haven't stopped ever since.

I started writing when I was about 14 and it seems to me that, as Gerry said, it keeps me balanced.

I think that possibly some people need to do certain things. Some need to be involved in political activities; some need to play competitive sport, others need to challenge themselves with risks of different kinds and there are some, myself included, who need to be involved in music regardless of commercial success. (Some of course have a wide range of needs).

I'd suggest that the difference between these activities and hobbies is that they are not chosen for the purpose of distraction or entertainment but seem to arise from some other need.

By the way, isn't it great that all the wide ranging comments in this thread, have come after Kingwood Kowboy's relatively brief post that said 'See Y'all in February'!

@Chip,

Sorry to hear that. I had that musical connection with my dad, and will always miss that now he's gone. I did, however, write him a song that i'm very proud of, not three weeks after he passed away (though there's never an appropriate time to sing it, of course!) so there is that.

Anyway, just wanted to say i empathise with that, and i guess it is another example of the many types of inner needs and drives that fuel musicians and other creative types.

CouldabeenworseTom--Apparently one a' them was good

If only two thirds of my songs sucked I'd consider that a wild success! And I resemble that fat 53 year old all too well...

I'm looking forward to Kingwood posting more lyrics, one of the favorites of mine was putting music to some Kingwood Kowboy lyrics, back I think in 50/90 2010.

But yeah, I must write more songs, if only to have a few more good ones. I haven't done a lot in these challenges, haven't "won" one of these yet (never done either 50 or 14 songs in the alloted time, maybe as many as 7 for a FAWM), and I maybe have enough total "good" songs for maybe a short EP. And in recent years I don't think I've written a single song outside of 5090 or FAWM. Must Write Moar.

Last month I DID win NaNoWriMo, and unlike my previous win two years ago, I feel like I have most of an actual novel this time. The "about" gives only a hint at what my wicked mind came up with:
http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/participants/ben-madison
Here's an actual writing sample that tells exactly what the book is about, and in this snippet I do something even worse to the reporter than killing thousands of characters. The password is: flashed
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230912

And I bought a couple more strat clones this year...

"""""""""I don't think I've written a single song outside of 5090 or FAWM. Must Write Moar.""""""""""

I believe I fall into the same category Ben. However, the muse is beginning to feed me hooks, so I take it she's is well rested and will be rarein' to go by the time FAWM arrives, which isn't really that long
More coffee

I will look forward to a collab Darci. I'm sure musicsongwriter will be around at least, she's been quite active on that other forum , whatever it's name is

Did I hear "musicsongwriter?" Waves. Hi guys, yes, I love collaborating and I'm looking forward to everyone who is interested in collaborating. Thank you to all my collaborators who was collaborating with me. I'm always honoured to collaborate with you! Merry Christmas everyone. Looking forward to FAWM soooo much!!!

chip, that sounds very interesting indeed, i'll try and make the time to check that music out.