Ever wonder, authentically?

9 posts / 0 new
Last post

Ever wonder, authentically when looking at a song, read it carefully, listen, maybe twice, see a huge thread of "comment/feedback", and wonder what's wrong with what your reading, hearing, thinking? "You", just don't get it.

-- Folks who know me, will "get" this consideration, -- authentic or nothing; if not, oh well.

Anyway, it's happened to me a couple of times this summer. And I just don't get what it is that others are engaging to comment-feedback and sometimes, "thickly". I'd love to be able to see it and maybe "get it", or learn something, and so I post this Smile

Now, "remember", ?, I do say, "good" is not "like" and I know a good work product if even I don't "Like" it, however that goes, -- genre, demo-quality, etc. caveats we all know well "here". I just don't comment when I am sure it's just something I am more comfortable, or better off, not commenting on (and some maybe "technically" proficient too, but purely, not for me to comment on Smile )

So, this is an end of 5090 for the "hangers on" advanced folks ? Wink who sit there and scratch their heads and just don't get bushel of "love it" comments, and you just don't see it but tried, maybe even "wanted to like it", so to speak.

(And, to be clear, "this" has nothing to do with the "encouragement" thesis, -- I get that, but short of that possibly doing "damage" too; "that" would not apply to long, gushing, numerous comment/feedback Wink you just do not get.)

-- Interesting thought? Maybe not... and that's OK. This thread could be like what I'm speaking to, and just don't get it Smile

Well, I'm not advanced in any sense, but I wonder about all sorts of stuff. The 5090 tends to be a positive/supportive place, so I tend to discount some of those "love it" comments. On the other hand, people like what they like. Personally, I'm not going to comment if I don't find something to like. Sometimes I listen to a masterfully produced song with tons of nice comments and maybe even an "artist's favorite" tag, and I think, "Damn, that is a hackneyed piece of shit." This is the time to mentally celebrate our beautiful community and move on in silence.

What really makes me wonder is when someone has written a brilliant lyric and folks leave perfunctory comments that make no mention of said brilliance. I wonder whether people even read or listened to the words--or whether they just dropped by to fulfill their reciprocity obligations as quickly as possible. I'm sure I've done that, too

Hey @fresh spotless youth -- yes, I wanted to get past the knee jerk stuff too, so thanks for that; we all know where we are, especially as folks here at the end or even after fawmover.

So, one "thing" I learned in answer to my own question was, -- I needed to get to know an author of a style I really didn't like. I didn't know it would have any effect.

However, as I say, "Like does not equal "Good" and so did recognise Good, very good actually if even really didn't like it.

So, what happened in this instance was, as I engaged the person, got to know them personally and learned more of/about that music they did (they did other), I then began to understand that music and now like it. I had a good good friend who loved this music genre I speak of, but, as a listener, -- I was not going to learn what I learned as I did from someone who authored/created it. I then started to appreciate more their other work which I did like, but didn't pay allot of attention to, since was mostly the other that they "created".

So, if I do some "supposition" and "think out loud" -- I know that I don't as well know the folks of the examples I speak of.

I know music has a universal element. However, I learned now, after many years there is this other singular element too, -- if makes sense.

But that brings me to your great statement,
-- "What really makes me wonder is when someone has written a brilliant lyric and folks leave perfunctory comments that make no mention of" [it].

Yeah, that makes me wonder quite a bit too. And makes me think of this story, I've told where, -- at a venue I was approached for the source of my set, and showed them my song book, -- "me" and they just walked away. "Wow" huh? I have never, to date gotten anyone to explain that to me. Well, actually Bill White did when I first mentioned it, said, more of that, -- was something he'd seen many times before. @billwhite51

Anyway, -- I'm glad to know others wonder... again, I wondered in terms of "what's wrong with me", -- skew, so to speak. I'm fine Smile but, I see more of it that I can understand in recent years.

I will inject "outside" of 5090, a very "generic" example,
---- Taylor Swift finally release her new album and it popped up on my iPhone under Amazon music in total (16 tracks or so? maybe 18, hard to see in the phone interface)... and immeidately, all sitting there said, "wow, that's a krapped song". Actually the only one of any merit, arguably is the featured track and like #14 ish in the Track List. The rest, and so many!... were elevator music generic, -- again, arguably.

He' she makes $20M/year and loved by Millions, -- but is it by habit or merit? To that I say, any band I ever looked at, if only 1-2 tracks were good on the album, -- didn't buy it, ever.

(And to be clear, in my vast music diversity, I * "like" Taylor Swift music, -- once she got out of the teen stuff and her voice change, and left the tight formulas behind... analysis if it can teach or affirm a few things and so analyze her stuff for that too, FYI.)

A few musings. I tend to say with some artists, i respect their abilities but its not my kind of music. Add to that my old ma used to say! If you look hard enough you will find some good in everything. Yes in a supportive group you have to take some comments a bit lightly! But isn't that like life? You hear lots of things and you apply your filters to it! The better your filters generally the more you are self contained and happier. You also find a few people who tell you the way it really is! As much as i respect the integrity of every comment here, i have a very small group of people whose opinions i weight higher! I like Bill am am a very big reviewer, my reasons are twofold, 1. I love the chase (always have) always looking for the next good song or artist - my daughter bought me a cup which says “i listen to bands that don't even exist yet” and yes I've often been ahead of the curve. 2. I have the time. I find it is as trendy to dislike some artists as it is trendy to like some! Along time ago on many topics i realised i am no longer representative of the masses (areas like music, Tv shows etc) and im ok with that. Personally on receiving comments i Take them at face value but certainly don't over worry about them! I am human though Smile and occasionally write something that doesnt get the attention id like but sometimes its the other way around! Im too old to over worry - I'm around for some fun.

Hey @coolparadiso — very relevant thesis point, “i realised i am no longer representative of the masses”.

But, what if you wanted to be, — to understand, if it were your job (how then to keep it).

Possibly like a Sommelier— you just gotta know and be correct, more or less.

Look at ? Dick Clark or anyone as producer to the grave? Maybe a bit hyperbolic Smile But analogously speaking.

I know krappe when is see it and don’t step in it; but what if it were not a “pile” — then what? Not to maybe like it as much as understanding what folks are hearing, how and why.

Now, the personal element I have always pushed as reason imo/ime; and it’s hard to not like someone singing their heart out, — Satchmo (spelling) how’d that voice make it to the radio — but I liked him when ~6yo ish and remember him on the plastic kitchen AM radio Smile

So, for example I again (weird huh) like Swift — but am sure the current album will go down as her worst, or “transition” album. We’ll see Smile hahhh.

And I like scratchy 78s (for a little while Wink anyway).

So, again, we all know where we are here, but this is about that element of why/why not and how do you “know”.

I was entirely uneffected by Led Zep (told b4) until one great party, where allot of their music was played; only then liked it, for the memory attached.

But it’s more than that, isn’t it?

Or, maybe I am there Wink — what I hear as krappe or good just is? Smile

I think the thing for me is emotional authenticity.

If it's obvious that the singer/band/whatever actually cares about the music and is putting a piece of their life in to the song, then it will probably appeal to me.
Which is why I like stuff from across the board; from Robert Wyatt's "Rock Bottom" album to the Beatles to Ella Fitzgerald to "scratchy old 78's" (I have quite a collection of string band music on 78rpm).
And that's my issue with most of newer popular music; it seems pretty antiseptic.
Dollars seem to matter more than creating quality music.

So that's my definition of "krappe" - music that even the artists themselves don't really seem to care about.

I think like all things subjective to taste there needs to be a twofold mechanism to evaluate music; there needs to be a way to access if it is good despite of the genre and what is not, even though you enjoy it; particularly, though, not only, if you are going to work with it, create it. My mom hates the Alien movies for finding the actual aliens disgusting, but I often say she can't say that it's bad BECAUSE of that. Being effectively repulsing in many ways it's one of the greatest victories in that, so we need to learn how to think about things that are often out of the curb for us. There are many people here whose music are not really my cup of tea, but I position myself into thinking about the genre they are writing, what kind of thing they are talking about and expressing and comment on it like a critic would, considering its strengths, weaknesses and how good of a representative of the genre it is. Thus I've have found I can have an intellectual appreciation of so, so, so many things and learn many tricks. that being said, this also helps in expanding the cup of tea into maybe a bowl of soup, because no man survives on tea alone and I found that inspiration comes from the weirdest sources. Many of the most metal song ideas I've had came during a period of over listening to Lady Gaga and pop is not really my thing. So, yeah, let's learn to enjoy things out side our box, because it's the only way we can ever think outside the box.

Dear mr @ustaknow i am lucky because i am pretty sure i know what the masses mostly want - hence how i know I'm not representative of them! Someone the other day said to me they want circuses and bread (i suspect its a quote) and overall a lottery win and entertaining to death. Some truth in there!

Yeah, I am sure I'll never have a pop hit either, very sure Smile hahhh (your're a funny guy cool-one). I think if I, you or anyone really cared about "that", they would not be a songwriter, -- for real, as "Songwriter", -- as we all here are (indeed). It's the one thing anyone can authentically be, by self declaration, if "do", -- an "Artist" (pick a subset label).

One thing, of very few elements that preceeds a very good song/lyric is if it was deeply personally anchored, (as Fuzzy says, too), e.g., an authentic expression of remorse, longing, mourning, joy, observation. I see 50 songs, and in "a list", one or two have that element and they stand out, easily. Yet, as said above, -- not really seen or reacted too. (So, are they good, or just easy to react to and so folks do? That's part of it... definitely. (Good revelation, -- generic and easy to be pleasant and show it.) )

So for self example, my "To the Moon Alice" song. Now don't misunderstand, yeah, it's a funny song (easy), and, for me, gotta "allot" of attention (well for me that's allot Smile ), more than others. But, it's a krappe song Smile hahhh! Part of it, I guess, -- is that it is/was a very "easy" song to react to in it's -- context as well. So, I see that as part of all of "this" too.

Well, I realise that this, "how do you know if it's really krappe, though many others hawk it up and you just don't get it", --- it's a thesis that takes "all" in this, in the most authentic, positive light; all the good elements stated here align, and then you wonder, -- "what am I missing" (?).

-- So I guess, in context, there is some element in that instance one may not be aware of, BUT, *caring if one missed *something, to find out more (?), maybe "that" is what's important here, in this, in this thread.

And so let me say then, that there are five "here" who, self evident, -- do. So in sudo-stats here, that's like 2% of the engaged base here (?). I am sure one could double that at least to 4%.

It's interesting, to me anyway, to constantly see certain numbers in this industry, 2% this, 98% that Wink which makes "this place" a pretty good sampling, as far as those things may go, -- anecdotally speaking.

It's good to take a moment, now and then, and try to bluntly assure oneself of what they are seeing so as not to crowd-think with the "emperor's got not clothes" thinking, -- not only naked but "ugly" too Smile hahhh!