all a facade...restore my hope? or tell me to get lost.

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So, with the confession that the person running the random collab, we're to understand that the only reason to run a random collab is to make sure you get to collab with who you want to with no regard for anyone else in the random collab. My collab went badly, but no one cares about that. It's all about running games to make sure you get to collab with who you want, right? There is a HUGE lack of communication in 50/90, or is it just me, because it seems collabs abound - everyone is collabing.....but I'm not. So I wonder - is there collab clique? or do you have to play a certain instrument to collab? or is it only certain people who get to collab? Because not everyone gets to ask...I personally have been SHUT DOWN every time I've asked for a collab, with the exception of Arthur Rossi - but he kinda lets everyone collab, right? but NO.....every time I've asked to collab, outside of about 3 people, I've been told NO - and the same 3 people comment on my songs, so ...lets get real here ...cuz I"m ready to give up music entirely.....if my songs suck.. So I need the real reasons why I'm not good enough to be in the "collab clique".....and YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE..most of you frequent the slack chat, and so willing to BRAG about collabing - like you are some kinda celebrity.

The only collabs I'm getting to ask to do is vocals - and you've all made it QUITE clear I'm NOT a vocalist and should not try to you all just wan't me to go away entirely?

Rejection hurts. thinking I"m not good enough to work with you hurts.

Thinking you think I have no talent even hurts worse.

Where did you get your sense of entitlement?

I'm really sorry to hear you are feeling bad about this!! Sad I have personally done very little collabing this year and actually very little writing and commenting too because of other life stuff going on. So I really know nothing about the issues you have experienced. But is it possible that this is not directed at you and instead is just a symptom of a general lack of participation? I am always disappointed that 50/90 goes way too long and only a few hardcores stick around after the first couple of weeks. I always want it to be like FAWM and it never is.

Anyway I hope you don't go away! You are just as welcome here as anyone and no one should be treating you poorly!!!!

Hi, Tasha. Sorry you've had a bad experience. I hope the rest of the month goes better for you. Personally, I've had almost no recording time this year. I don't think I've done a single collab. Just wrote a bunch of lyric only stuff that will get added to the pile? Don't give up. Keep writing songs. Smile

I would love to collab and would be thrilled if you were interested in putting any of my lyrics to music! I generally don't ask people to collab except for a few people who I feel I have gotten to know as I also hate being told no but I always say yes to collaborators who ask to collaborate unless someone has already contacted me about a song. I try to remember to write on my lyrics collaboration welcome. I also post something in the forum about having lyrics available. So anyway I am totally open to collabs with you or anyone else. I'm also happy to try to write to your music. . I'm really sorry that you had a bad experience. I hope that the last three weeks go better!!!

having attempted to reply to this in several different ways, basically it comes down to 'keep going'...

Its seems, about a week ago, it's like everyone got on a bus and left... never like "this" in the prior, however little my experience has been. I like that what it leaves is really only the very serious. So, that has its benefits, imo, too. The feedback when you get it, if you do, for me, seems more significant and granular.

As far as collaborations, -- for me, always seemed querky. So, I avoid them, or don't solicit them. I used to have a collab statement relevant to what happens in vegas, stays in vegas and etc., -- the 5090 understanding anyway. In any of 5090, FAWM, I had one collab and was someone who was apparently affected by a lyrics only draft that for me --figured was a krappe pile song but had something so put it up. This person took it and did far better than I would have. However, this person knew my style and their vocal was a match. So, was their very laid back personality.

So, concerning what you ask, from a 20K foot view, -- "this is this place", in this moment. Next week...?... probably not.

Clicks, oh, well, they are very apparent here. However, new ones form every event... I just love the new folks... they are what makes this place.

As far as "old timers", eh, there's only one, two, maybe three at the most that even comment back to me if directly addressed. I respect their comfort level and feel there are plenty of folks to "build relationships" with who don't have as solidified, narrow opinions of "stuff" in general.

Some of the "old timers" seem wide open... so, one can't generalise. But, birds of a feather... and so on. Why would one want to gather with a bunch of old birds all flying in formation and the same direction all looking at the same "back end" of the old bird out front? Smile

Stay positive, force yourself to be flexible, force yourself to adapt, have strong principles yet no overt strong opinions concerning group cooperation without the mob-mind-collective thinking... -- all of which I can't do! Smile So, I don't approach the group projects and etc.

The folks who "like" my stuff, they find me. And the one or two I have mean very much to me... very much. 2 - 3 substantial, honest opinions are, imo, of far more value than 50 "frienemy - fans". I never got that. But, do have a few almost famous friends who'll take humiliation to get "attention", --hate being alone, ignored. So, for me, again, -- I don't seek to dive into all that.

So, since you asked, -- derUgo Smile my 20,000 foot view for what it's worth and how it is "for me". Yet, quite happy with it.

-- Bottomline, this is still the best place I've found overall that has "people"... people... they ruin everything Wink

Remember, folks who may think another "sucks", may just not like "that" style of music. You are not dealing with "rocket scientists"... who use their words well for communication. If one learns anything from, e.g., the Berkeley Online Courses... -- they don't like the style, and has nothing to do with "you". They never developed the ability to discern (e.g. I don't like rock-a-billy) ... the merits of a song in a style they don't "like". The "public" won't always give you that assurance, --that, you develop yourself. I just read an article on "Lindsey" the dubstep dancing violinist... told to NOT do what shes LOVED for... very publicly. Good for her she didn't listen. She was told she lacked talent, and I guess looked "silly" doing what she did +- to keep it short.

Listen carefully to all negative feedback... if someone is commenting, there IS something there in it for you to benefit from. I discovered that the worst criticism to me was entirely all about the commenter, --think about it. What else would it reflect? Them, or me? Can't be me... it's just one song... didactic cuts are what they reacted to. That's a good thing, not bad, or how I see it for me.

Hey @Tasha Parker Gibbs, saw this and remembered that we haven't yet this 5090 so lets collaborate! Will send a soundboard msg Smile

I get what you mean, and I kinda feel the same way. I've got 2 collabs 'in progress', but I haven't heard from either of them since they agreed to it (which might have been like a month or two ago?). As for comments, I feel like I've been pretty lucky, I've been getting a lot of comments, with a lot of helpful feedback. Which is strange considering I've been pretty terrible at giving comments (sorry for that, btw). Don't stop making music, just keep at it, don't let negative comments or whatever discourage you. Smile

Hi Tasha, I hear you. I think it can appear that everyone is happily collaborating yet most of people can share their very unhappy, negative experiences regarding their collaborations. As for me, I've lost any opportunity to ever find one of my collaborators who created amazing music to my lyrics and absolutely vanished: no email replies and never on 50/90 or fawm. One of my collaborators had about 20 messages from me without any reply, I couldn't understand what happened and what I did wrong so I just let my feelings into my lyrics. I wrote "You are forever faraway" and thanks to John it became a song. Regarding random collaborations, I have no idea how they are done, I suppose I happened to be lucky on both occasions but it was totally random and I wasn't even sure if to take part or not because random collaborations can result into random situations, that's why it's probably safer not to take chances unless we just tell ourselves that anything can happen, it can work or not, this is how it is with any collaboration. I treasure the collaboration we had and I'd be honored to collaborate with you any time you would like to and I'm sincerely sorry you feel so dissapointed with the random collaboration. Anyway, I'm here any time you'd like to talk/collaborate. I can see other people are also very keen to collaborate with you so I'm sure you'll soon find there are too many offers. Anyway, it doesn't have to be during 50/90, please let me know if you are happy to collaborate and we can always do it when you have the time/chance/happy to.

I have done a handful of collaborations in the 8 years I've done FAWM/5090. I'm not often gung-ho to do them. I have to be really moved by a lyric to attempt one. I prefer to work on my own anyway. Maybe you're reading too much into your experience. As for cliques. Some people are used to working with others over the years, know their songwriting quirks/talents and are comfortable with them. At least you're getting asked to do vocals. I would call that a positive Smile No one asks me to do anything - but I don't mind that. Take what you can from 5090 and FAWM. I've found it to be a positive experience.As Kraftec has said, "don't let negative comments...discourage you" - I know how hard that can be, but try to focus on the good ones. Smile

Tasha I hope you know that I am always open for a collab.
Even when 50/90 is over. I agree that they are a sometime thing. That just doesn't bother me. Keep writing. There are too many possibilities, to having a satisfying song.

@Tasha Parker Gibbs said, "So I need the real reasons why I'm not good enough to be in the "collab clique".

I don't know but I can take a few guesses?

People are lazy is my number one guess.
People just don't feel like playing music right now.
Because talking is easier than doing the actual work that a collaboration requires. (sorry, been too busy but I will get back to you). Don't you love it?

That said, my intention was to actually do a collaboration with you (Tasha) this year. I have a damn injury in my right arm that prevents me from operating my equipment for long periods of time. However, I could probably still do this, and keep my word to "do" a collaboration with you this year. Fair warning, these people don't care much for me and I get snubbed no matter how good I do (years of experience dealing with these people). Off board, I'm a proven true professional with the collaborations.

[deleted except to say:]

Tasha, I am very sorry that this year is stressful for you (in more than one way.) I hope you can find peace.

it's easy to be offended online. like i am upset now because i feel attacked because i have made certain friends over the years i have been doing fawm/5090. I haven't done any collaborations with them this year though. i have hardly done any writing, much commenting apart from reciprocal, have kept the auntie sin game ticking over but not really managed to get stuck into things this year. but to be attacked (albeit as part of a general attack) for not doing it the way you want feels very unfamiliar territory for this place. I am not cliquey just because i have made friends with some people and not every person. i haven't even managed to keep up with what my friends have been posting. some people you connect with some you don't, reading your bio telling me we can all cease to be doesn't endear me to connecting with you if you're looking to connect. the bit you say that you haven't got enough attention was surprising since i see you have 4 collabs (4 more than me) and many songs all with a few comments. everyone has stuff going on and can do the 5090ing they do depending on what they can do or want to do. i don't think we should all be attacked for those efforts not being up to someone else's expectations. It is a testament to the friendliness of this community that in the face of that attack there are so many lovely replies. if i had collabed this year i would feel the accusation more, "you all" covers me though, but i would hate to think that if i collabed with a friend who i'd like to collab with that that makes me somehow hostile to you. 5090 is harder than fawm and even in fawm i often only get a handful of songs. but i love doing it still and think it is such a friendly, supportive and creative place. i might not have done very much this 5090 but i haven't done anything Wrong.

Tasha, you've garnered 165 comments so far this 50/90, an average of 5 per song. From my perspective, this is incredible engagement from the community - it's way more than I've gotten. You've posted here and received 13 replies in one day, plus a comment on your soundboard. I can't figure out why you feel so ignored.

It can sometimes be hard to find people here - I keep seeing the same few names come up again and again in the jukebox or the "Songs" section when I try to find things to listen to, I've never seen your name pop up. Not sure how those algorithms work but that might be one reason why you're getting the same people commenting.

Or it could be that those few people are your actual fans, as opposed to the people who skip past your page and your songs without saying anything. Have you asked those people to collab with you? And when you get turned down for collabs, do you ask why? I'm sorry your collab went badly and I'm sure the person who ran the random collab session is also sorry - but nobody can do anything about it, except the person who was supposed to collab with you. Have you talked to them about it?

It feels like the questions you're asking are directed at 50/90 as a group. No single person can answer your questions. Each of us fits some of the accusations you've levelled - you haven't asked me to collab, but I'd say no if you did, because I simply don't collab here and never have - but I doubt anybody fits ALL of them. If you think different, you probably know who you're thinking of, and you should ask them what the problem is.

I hope things feel better here for you and you get what you're looking for.

I agree 100% with [@corinne lucy]. I get feeling isolated and left out. I eat lunch on my own every day because I study with people half my age who have absolutely nothing in common with me. It sucks, but it is what it is. The world doesn't owe me a thing.

It's the same here. People are very busy (50 songs is a stressful and challenging ordeal) and there's not quite the same free and easy atmosphere as there as in FAWM. It's hard enough to keep up with listening/comments.

I can engage with the community and build relationships and yeah sometimes that might lead to a collaboration or two, but I certainly don't feel entitled to anything. In fact, most of the people I collab with are people I know very well offline.

That sucks. I'll eat lunch with you!

Me too, @French Cricket!!!

Thanks guys Biggrin

kc5's picture

Hey Tasha,

Are you sure you're not just having a down day? I've told you before, I'm a fan of your lyrical abilities. You have a very creative mind. I wish I could create on a whim the way you do. I just want to say, I wish you to realize what you have. Its a gift to use words and ideas the way you do. Its very important that you have your own confidence in your abilities. In the path of songwriting, you're going to get both sides of the opinions--its just the nature of humans and everyone has their own tastes and preferences. You've got to know that you know that you know you've got what it takes or that you will continue for the love of what you do because its in your bones. If you rely on responses of others, you're on shaky ground and sure to leave songwriting--IF the responses of others is what you're leaning on. If you have a drive that you can't explain (which I think possibly you do), you won't stop. You might pause, you might preoccupy with something else for awhile--but you will not give up because its in you.

I don't take part in any of the collaboration skirmishes. I just hope you don't let what's going on there determine for you what your talent is.